Frst off, the summary expresses where the Endless are housed, not where they are limited to. Also he is only talking abiut Destiny comparing it to a sea creature, that says nothing about the positions of. I'll wait. @kuuzo: Get out of here with ur bs, pralaya is a N52 character ur retcon scans are referring to someone else. Side-note: No Ultra/Prime Monitor, God Swamp. @galaxium: I only see a scan of Lucifer talking about vertigos Brahma. These forms are the following: As his creator, the Presence mostly features as an idea that Lucifer struggles against throughout the series as he believes that he has no free will as long as he has any connection to the Presence and it's creation, while the Presence argues that Lucifer's own actions are proof of it not being true. u legit lied said the presence doesnt get directly involved in his creations. You can twist everything as you are very good at doing it, your posts speak for themselves. Spectre said the presence was missing, and that he might learn something from the source in dc cosmology. This also means that the God that exists in the Sphere of Gods is just a manifestation, avatar, or aspect of the Presence. FATE? Based on your made up Coie fanfiction, sure he did. A being predates another one because he came first/prior, not because of a difference in terms of power. Telepathy: The ability to read minds of others. 5/10 Spider-Verse Is An Example Of Influential Fan Service. and u never debunked a single thing I said lol. With the unexpected arrival of the woman's boyfriend, the dark spirit's haunting grows more obsessive. Ur issue is ur mixing cosmology. The Endless, Lucifer and his ilk have been said to be either supreme embodiments of concepts or concept creators too, so I believe in the cosmic sense they would indeed have similar functions. The Presence is the creator of the DC Multiverse. One day. Yes, he said that Destiny's position is only metaphorical and not literal, which debunks this nonsense of Destiny being above evergthing. Presence is left to be ambiguous in general.I take y3k's side to this char. The Presence is the creator of the Council of Eternity and stated himself that he was everywhere. So, it's actually Vertigo = DC mainstream, unless stated otherwise. I dont need to prove it was metaphoric because the being pralaya was directly compared to is visually absent. That's why I have you an example of Death being able to completely leave the DC verse in the first place. The aspects, are the sources. Star TrekUn nouveau monde trange. The only being that was called god other than the presence is dr.m and he is above concepts( time, magic, space) which pralaya isnt, so its only just one deity that fits the stereotype. 5th scan: Is that even an evidence of a defeat? Here is Grant Morrison, another writer of DC's view on it: Grant Morrison says that in his cosmology The Source is the same entity as his God (who is not the Presence, it's a being called Monitor Mind or Overvoid). So vertigo kali, Michael and lucifer would fall under that deity based on canon. Ahh I just farted. Issue #39CENTS In the Presence of Mine Enemies (1973) #39CENTS Answer (1 of 10): The Presence is the true god of DC, the one who created everything. What implications does Destiny's position bear on the rest of the DC cosmological hierarchy especially regarding the Endless and Lucifer's kin? I have YET to find any quote of Morrison actually stating that there is a metconcept being of FATE at the top of the map who just so happens to look EXACTLY like Destiny. The diff between this cosmology and a rebooted one(infinite frontier) is that mostly everyone is aware of the restart. Did not me take me long to come up with this small debunk part setting the tone for what is to come for both of your posts, which you have deliberately chosen to continue to sink into the abyss. In fact, the only person theorizing about this issue is you. Les Tortues Ninja ( Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) est un film amricain ralis par Steve Barron en 1990. The Presence The Presence Prime Earth. In any case, there are other explicit evidences, but I don't need to substantiate it further by using agaisnt you the same source you are using. Another is the fact heavens name is called something else and its appearance is very diff from the original silver city, as well as lucifer morningstars bio. The statement is about the enhanced senses of perception of the Spectre as a result of absorbing more energy, not describing anything else you are trying to claim. - The only thing that can be taken to imply it's not Destiny is his statement: "I think you're taking the position of Destiny on the map a little too literally. However, in dc comics Rama K is the highest being in that pantheon dimensionally transcending all angels. It was found on limbo and has no direct relation to Destiny. Sons of Perpetua (The Monitors) also reside on the Sixth Dimension, but they connection to it relies on Perpetua: The artist is talking about the sketch and the official map, did you even read it correctly? Lol, leaving the DC Universe doesn't qualify as leaving the Sphere Of Gods at all. it pales in comparison to the SUV Coup AMG GLE 63 S in presence, power and the S-Class launched . 37. In a separate case, presence Sent PS to bribe Trigon who was going to earth to wreck havoc, and personally dealt with him later on because he was going to assail the gates of heaven. So you tell me where this "Fate" character is in Multiversity. Death in Books of Magic claims the entirety of the Multiverse in the future, including "Fate" if you want to argue that. You should know this as well, shouldn't you? The Faceless God, a mysterious avatar who can send its worshipers back through time itself. In the first image is a sketch of Morrision's Multiversity map. First things first, I can reply to anyone involved in this thread, especially when they are making baseless claims, which is still the case here. He was looking for the aspects of the Presence in the other pantheons. Also judging by ur prev responses, ex; u accused me of cherry picking and something about it going against my personal view on the presenceSeems ur just bent tbh. Editor: Julius Schw. Created by Atemporal. The Countdown Monitors are fragments of the Mar Novu. LOL at "Pralaya cant be the presences aspect if shes older", when she has been described as "God's unconscious", supporting that the very existence of Pralaya is intrinsically dependent on God, as are the Spectre, Michael Demiurgos, Lucifer, etc. Every religion has their own diety. And further examination shows that Scoria could only interact, similar to what Takion could with the Source, but could not interact in opposition to it in any way, only observe the thoughts of God. As a matter of fact, nor Brahma was actually portrays in this storyline; does not mean that Brahma is not an actual figure in the DC's Universe or that "the Sleep of Brahma" is not an actual eschatology belief in the DC Universe or whatever ridiculous implication from your illogic point. New Gods are platonic, fundamental and primal forms: So unless you can prove The Black Racer is an aspect of Death (you can't , because he is platonic, meaning he is an fundamental form of the world, and because the New Gods have zero relation to the Endless). The critically acclaimed Mark Steel's in Town was voted the 6th best radio comedy ever and Mark is a regular on the BBC's Have I Got News For You, QI and BBCR4's News Quiz. VUL WLC LXX mGNT TR NAV RVR60 . I'm of your faith. Also, did anyone give an answer to whether the Imps would be above/in/below the Sphere of Gods or not? Volthoom created . You all have adressed nothing. DeMatteis' statement on his Twitter further supports the obvious implication he has already expressed in the comics regarding his own character ("Call it what you Will"), as opposed to your baseless claims which you still havent provide any evidence for it. and that it was clearly the intent of the author to depicts Pralaya as an aspect of God. I. The second says that he is not true form. I believe Presence and its creation reside at the Sphere of Gods (still on the realm inside the Source Wall), but as the Presence is undeniably a special kind of god, you could argue he shares the same position as Multiverse Creators such as Perpetua. Also, the following materials may be helpful for clarifying Death's relationship to beings like the Black Racer. I will go insane trying to complete an order list. Omnipresence: The Presence is everywhere at once. In fact they scale below dr.Manhattan who casually stepped into their cosmology from watchmen verse and was visually shown to have more energy than presence/source combined. Death is SUPPOSED to be limited to the SoTG, yet she's the only being who has travelled beyond DC verse to Marvel and she on panel, has claimed (and will claim) the entire DC multiverse. Not much is known about the Presence what we do know is very vague. When we eat this Bread and drink from the Cup we enter into communion with his Body and Blood. You just proved you didn't even read the whole thing. He was created directly by the Overvoid. I'm not ignoring anything buddy. Silly reasoning of yours. Then possibly limbo it is mentioned in vertigo just not its placement. And even admitting that there is not distinction between both Presences for argument's sake, Pralaya and all other DC's Primal Darkness figures were defeated by the very act of Creation, associated predominantly with "the Light" in the DC Universe. For those that believe that Destiny's reach is beyond the Sphere of Gods, what would be evidence that those stories contain the history of the Monitor Sphere or above? Comic Vine users. Hughes didn't even agree with him. I made a vow long ago that whenever I am asked who I would like to see on Taskmaster I would answer Adam Buxton. Don't read too much into it.". ago. Christ is present in the elements of bread and wine which become his body and blood. Still no evidence of how the Presence was defeated. Not knowing the difference between a reboot and retcon; the difference between Morpheus and Daniel; the anteriorirty between the Endless with Destiny as the oldest one; and I have left out a few. Thanks for confirming that. Presence would slap the Source, Source is overrated doesnt even scale beyond True Darkseid. Well, that is not me saying it, it is the artist of the comic saying it, that was his way of making this representation of Fate different. These would be those guys. Register Sign in. Doctor Light is a bipartite character comprising supervillain Arthur Light and superhero Jacob Finlay, appearing in comic books published by DC Comics.. His stint as Doctor Light is concurrent with that of a superheroine using the same name and a nearly identical costume, Kimiyo Hoshi. Hughs LITERALLY says "Destiny" by his name. The author clearly says Destiny is not above everything and is only metaphorically above it. 2nd claim: The titans brother reaching godhood means they defeated the Presence? . Both were referenced which is why I mentioned both the refined version as well as the actual completed mapand nothing about the position of Destiny has changed since he is still at the top in the current map. He corrected them back in the 90's sine they need permission to use her. He does not even support that: ''Presence=Source=Overvoid'' Most of his arguments about the presence are from DeMatteis, not Morrison. Paras/Parasect Appreciator: QUOTE(Mametchi @ Jul 9 2015, 02:34 PM) Hey guys, I'll be at Comic Con on Saturday (What a lame day to go, heh) So, well, are those posters still gonna be on . En 1912, Arthur Conan Doyle est un auteur clbre et il entend prouver une nouvelle fois qu'il est un auteur complet et non pas simplement le pre de Sherlock Holmes.Son nouveau roman, qui parait en feuilleton dans le Strand Magazine, s'intitule Le Monde perdu et met en scne un groupe d'explorateurs britanniques dans la rgion des Guyane, au sud du Venezuela en pleine . U of all ppl know the diff between a retcon and a reboot, but u decided to play stupid saying their the same to suit ur narrative, which is evidence ull take/use anything to further ur delusions. So, ur the only one making shit up going off record on Twitter, mixing comics that got retcon, to describe a character older than the presence, as his aspect <~~~~ headcanon . 3rd scan: Still no evidence of the Presence's death. Created by Mandos9452. That being said, there is not instance of "Daniel" (DC character*) to be shown in the World Forger's dominion for him to mention this information, because of the simple fact that there is nothing to support this principle that a character should have an appeareance related to a place or character to make any claim. In short, Yggdrasil >presence as well, so again Im not sure why u posted more ammunition to my point of presence(sphere god) operating on a lower scale. Ur really bad at using examples to debunk me and strengthen ur bs, u used spectre(wrath of god) as an example to say that pralaya is also a servant of god. As for the the Placement of the Fifth Dimension and its Imps, it is also not on the map, but we know it is below the Monitor Sphere (Bleedspace contains the Fifth Dimension), althought we don't know yet their relation to the sphere of gods. They are all bound to Perpetua since she created them, I woulf say that in the same way the brothers are connected to the Presence. Essentially God, the Presence is the absolute power in the universe, with the ability to create and destroy without opposition. The Presence is the representation of the Judeo-Christian God in the DC Multiverse and the father of both Lucifer Morningstar and Michael Demiurgos. It's not just Yahweh. According to the monitor fans the guy at the top of the map is fate as in Dr fate not Destiny at all who cannot go beyond the god sphere. REDACTOR-EF 2/2020 Ana-Maria Deliu. This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for: Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Loki est une srie tlvise amricaine cre par Michael Waldron diffuse partir du 9 juin 2021 sur la plateforme de streaming Disney+.Il s'agit de la troisime srie de l'univers cinmatographique Marvel sur cette plateforme. Scale the characters to EVERY THING IN DC AND MARVEL KNOWN. And if the case was not already worse for you, Grant Morrison, co-creator of the Multiverse Map that lays out the blueprint for DC's cosmology, did not only mention the concept of Hypertime at the time when New 52 was the current state of DC, but as well made clear that the former Multiverse (the Orrey of Worlds) has been formed through Hypertime. And you guys input makes a lot of sense. Travel to Marvel lol? Scale Presence to. As mentioned before, your posts, but especially this first part is full of poor understanding due to an obvious lack of knowledge of the school of thought to which DeMatteis adheres, in addition to make the common confusion to identify the Presence appearing inside Creation, specifically set in a Judeo-Christian context, with the Presence "God" shown to be one with the Void in different instances from different writers, starting with Alan Moore. No matter the context. data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAKAAAAB4CAYAAAB1ovlvAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAnpJREFUeF7t17Fpw1AARdFv7WJN4EVcawrPJZeeR3u4kiGQkCYJaXxBHLUSPHT/AaHTvu . . The Presence, also known as God or Yahweh, is the overarching instigators of the DC Universe and is based on the real Abrahamic monotheistic God. Who brought forth the New Gods? Yes, that would make sense. Also, my argument is that if you want to dispute position based upon ignoring placement in the actual refined map, then we can do that for any of the beings there, not just Destiny. The great darkness doesnt exist in the primum mobile lmao, the presence left it years ago. Monitor supporters definetely did a good job! Title: "The Pied Piper's Double Doom!" Issue: The Flash No. For those that believe otherwise, it would suffice to show that the Monitor Sphere is not recorded in the Book. My first guess is that there is two options: My reasoning behind being that it wouldn't make sense that Lucy could create something beyond the Godsphere given his nature as discussed earlier. This is also from Final Crisis, a more recent comic that Gaiman's run, which puts your point of it being "corrected: into question. So there is evidence but I believe there is evidence to state otherwise its all author dependent. In his hand, lied the White Lantern, which he used to bestow light upon the void. The supreme being of that religion is Rama Kushna. Have fallen for a thousand tales' end. Story adaptation, art and cover by Al Hartley. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25918691. Swamp things Alan Moore is just as relevant as the retcon comics u have piled, literally nothing to do with pralaya. Everything to do with the Presence in the DC universe. Comic Vine users. ^ shows how clueless op is. Religion/brahma is younger than perpetua, so no presence is not monitor mind. Have a nice day, buy bye. send you an email once approved. It is like another user here said, different writers have different views about what The Souce is, but I can do a rundown on the similarities and compare it to The Presence, The Souce: Primal concept, entity, or force, it is related to the New Gods and devoid of any religious themes surrounding it. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Irrelevant ,as it is not what has been disscused. Alex Ciorogar. The story Of Nix Uotan Was what confused me for a second. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/reboot, https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/retcon. Does anyone have any scans that prove the presence is the abrahamic god? Where pralaya is said to be a new character introduced as well as others. That even god himself must fall.same squad( z, constantine, ps, bb) involved in this was also involved with the blight, sin eater, felix faust dilema. Another interessting made up definion of "defeat" without any encounter between those figures. Has no relation to the New Gods. The thing is, the map also says that the Source and The Overvoid are two different beings. Additionally, where would this place their creations in regards to one another? Another distinction you can't tell has been added to the list. This also makes me wonder about the nature of those reside within the Godsphere and the Monitors. Regarding the remaining missing evidence, the Presence has been indentified as the "Triune Godhead" by Lucifer, still in Mike Carey's Lucifer works ("Sandman Presents: Lucifer"). Also, our place is From initial planting, a vine takes small, a boutique winery. Too bad that the conclusion is supported by nothing, but let's pretend it's the case for argument's sake. The true form of the New Gods are basically abstract fundamental concepts. You wont fool anybody Ditto wannabe. I won't waste too much time answering all this nonsense. The Presence is a fictional character in comic books published by DC Comics. He's saying they don't always correlate. It would have been safer for you to mention the right person. What do you guys think? @kuuzobro this is supposed to be about how the presence is the abrahamic god, do you have any scans that prove it?? Who will win in a fight between Zeus (GreekMyth) and The Presence? U can fool someone like broGoku, or hellsing who are ignorant to DC and favor ur headcanon so theyll take anything even retcon scans to put the presence at the top or say some shit like the presence is left ambiguous on purpose lol he was defeated multiple times, his mind was even put in hell by a minor demon named scoria. As of now, their more or the less the same being. Do you know the definition of crossover still? Some of you would think of other characters, but looking through all research, these are the characters that rank up to the Top 10. @sladeracer: Rama Kushna is not relevant to the discussion. He is above everything and and recording everything.. This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for: Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Not "claims", "evidence". Hes not there anymore and primum mobile doesnt exist in n52, it got retcon to non-existence. They all reform and exist in the Sixth Dimension, which exists outside of the Sphere of Gods, beyond it. The Voice https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Doctor-Fate-1988/Issue-6?id=22111. So, in actuality ur description of me in ur prev posts poor understanding , baseless claims , mental breakdowns is actually describing urself. Post golden diana called dr.m omnipotent right after this, not the presence. Options. The Presence So now we base everything on FEATS, SCALING, and SCALING TO COSMOLOGY SIZE of both Marvel and DC. That holds all things you have the destinys realm which is the peak of existence. Im not home, so i cannot post the very next page of this book. I suppose that's possible but according to monitors fans it all hypertime lanes that separate them hope this helps yeah, Is the Book of Destiny the same as the Book of Infinite Pages (As shown in Final Crisis?). Lastly, with the ideas of multiple multiverses like the one consumed by the Empty Hand, Lucifer's Creation, and those created by the Supercelestials like Perpertua, does this imply that there is a Source Wall between Multiverses just like there is between univereses? So why would the voids consciousness be an aspect of the presence? Lucifer Morningstar is the original . Also Death is bad example, since she is not even the ultimate incarnation of Death in the DC universe. Anyway I will try to adress this more clearly tomorrow since I am very tired and sleepy now. Many characters have travelled to there are on the crossovers are canon according to Morrison. I'm the paid agent of the Triune Godhead, the King of Heaven. Another user here on CV confirmed that said scan was made by a guy called thebestdebater, a Google+ debater that attempted to prove the Void, the Source and The Presence were the same. "I think you're taking the positionof Destiny on the map a little too literally. DIRECTOR. And Belial talking to PS in a omni nexus, insinuating Presence was never called " the voice" is proof he was retcon. Powers and Abilities Original The Source originally is fully omnipresent, omniscient, and nigh omnipotent. Being the Supreme being of the entire DC Multiverse and beyond, there is no limit to The Presence's powers and abilities thus proving him to have no weaknesses or flaws. Debunking your unbstianted claim that Pralaya being described as "God's Unconscious" is in a metaphorical way, when she has been described in many ways among this one: "the Sleep of Brahma", "the unmanifest Void", etc. puts her well beyond anything in any comicverse. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, The Presence beyond Understanding and the Mahapralaya, "Geoff Johns Talks Big Changes and Spoilers From DC Universe: Rebirth". How the burden of proof falls on me when no one here have showcased said "influence" of the Endless? I am thinking that if the Endless are indeed limited to the Sphere of Gods, simply proving that the Imps can die would place them in the Sphere of Gods. 2 Pages 1 2 > Rare's presence at Comic-Con. He is probably stronger than the Endless, that is for sure. So would the Presence and its creation reside within what Sources dominion ? That directly contradicts you. See you with your second, even third, forth, fifth accounts in few hours. So I ask you again, who is in the OM? I already showed the narrative stating that even the presence would fall to her, this act of denial on top of ur misconduct further paints u as the guy whose all bent. His nature is pretty clear to me, honestly. This here just proves you haven't even read the scans properly. Monitor mind is older than all, older and more powerful than Mobius who outperformed yahweh in coie. Many times the Source is also equated to the Source Wall, which is also widly inconsistent and varies in position and functions to fit whatever purpose the writer wants it to have, but it is consistently represented as the edge of all creation. 211. Show some love by finding it helpful. Do you have some kind of self-conflicting dialogue with yourself? But u however will always be in denial, using anything, even if its not relevant, to support ur theory, and i can see no amount of copium is going to ease ur cv psyche knowing there are better theories so u bash on others that makes more sense than yours. Exhaling his quintessence of perfection. What do you think? The written part is still here, it is not there for no reason. The same goes for the Presence. She is the end all, be all personification of the concept in DC comics. By true here, I mean Morrisons interpretation of the New Gods in FC before the New 52. For someone asserting vehemently to be factual to the comics, using logic and many more, this has yet to be proven, lol. 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